Hoopla!

I am thinking back to one of my first memories of our small group, and I remember having the opportunity to reassure Kate of the legitimate concerns she had about being able to keep up with the workload, and the relief she felt when hearing that others struggle as well.  It came full circle today as she reassured me that if I can handle school at EBC, I will be able to handle the work of a Nursing student.

It has been a very interesting experience for me in this "more mature group" as we often call it, especially since I am the youngest by at least 6 years.  In these last two weeks it has been especially evidant.

Last week we talked about wether or not a spiritual mentor could be younger than the mentee.  My age was obviously noticed in that context, and I did make points for age being less relevant.  The concensus seemed to be that it does not matter if a spiritual mentor is younger than the mentee; if the spiritual mentor is young, as in immature, then that is certainly a problem.  I thought it was ironic that even if I was talking to people 8+ years older than myself who did not agree with being mentored by somebody younger than themselves, they were still listening to me.  My point may have been made regardless of the words I used ;)

This week we had a barbeque at Kate's house, and everybody was again able to make it.  What a great group!  And to think that Kate likes to do nice things like this. That is crazy!  Anyway, topics ranged from sexual techniques, bad sex, good sex, orgasms, fake orgasms, fidelity, potential partners, sexual preferences, and masterbation within the context of marriage.  We also talked about border crossing by way of Lake Superior in a ski-doo.  I learned a lot for sure, though there were times when I was uncertain about wether or not I wanted to know what I was learning.  And I have a lot of conversations about sexuality.  I simply have never seen people get so honest so fast, and this has been a huge benefit to me.

It is not possible to see from my current perspective if this will be possible, but I would love for our group to connect next year.  If nothing else I feel I have excellent rapport with all the members of my group, and would feel comfortable coming to them for advice or help.  Perhaps we will take our developing relational skills and use them in new supportive relationships, or perhaps we will have the opportunity to support each other again in the future.

What should a spiritual mentor look like?

All were present and involved in the conversation.

Our last group discussion proved to be enlightening. Being somewhat of a more mature in age group (to my group- it's a good thing!!) we have had some healthy talks and rest with the fact that it is okay to have our own opinion, we do not all need to agree, we can still get along even if we do not agree. Moreover, to have a healthy balance it is good to be open minded to hear what everyone has to say. Spending the last ten weeks together has helped us to grow personally and become more comfortable as a group. Announcing that Kate has made the decision to be baptized is a true sign that individuals in our group are growing in Christ. She is gettin baptized this Sunday! Congratulations Kate, we are soooooo excited for you!!!!

I raised the question again of: should we have a younger spiritual mentor? My purpose in asking it again was not to challenge the comment that we should not get “caught up in age” , but more to shed light on the deeper part of where the question is coming from and what it really means. Some valuable comments by the group were said such as: Good mentors ask questions and they don't give all the answers. We could get accidentally mentored, could be different mentors for different things. Younger could bring a nice touch especially if the person has not had a Christian relationship before.

Here is my personal view: I firmly agree, we should not get caught up in age, in fact, if the person is God sent and is spiritually mature with living in Christ, nothing else should really matter. God sent is the key word. Should we not be looking to the Bible and Holy Spirit for guidance on who should be our Spiritual Mentor? The Bible tells us that Elders should teach us (don't have the verse for the sake of time and space), older women to younger women and older men to younger men. Age is not mentioned, so being the ESTP that I am, logic comes first to mind. Experience from living in the world would naturally come from age. So this would look differently at different ages. It would be hard (but not impossible) to have someone under 20 mentor someone over 30. What about the sexual thoughts a 30 year old would get? The 20 year old is just identifying what that means to them. But in the later years, the difference is less extreme. Since we can only change with God's help, that would mean that we are mature enough to make the right decisions and appropriately use the authority in Christ that He has given us. In short, it is very useful to learn from everyone around us both younger and older. However, I define a Spiritual Mentor as a package deal. Someone who will hold me accountable and will have the experienced intuitive gifting that can probe my inner thoughts. Having someone who is wise (more likely an elder) is the most wise decision, otherwise although we will learn, we will be limited to what we can learn. This has nothing to do with being not teachable, they are completely two different things. Perhaps this is age that helps you see this. We have all been young at one time and look back at the interesting views we had. At what age do we become older?

I am glad that we are encouraging so many people to be mentors I believe that it is important to build people up. Possibly a solution is to have younger poeple shadow experienced spiritual mentors so that there can be more and each person can be highly influential In Christ.

Thank-you Jason for the guest speakers, it was very nice to hear them. You have been a strong leader and been open to what we all have to say. Also, having the small group was unique and a great idea. I really enjoyed my group, our class and all the discussions.

Its not the end........its just the beginning!!

This, apparently, was the last week that our small groups are meeting.  All were present today.

We had a lively discussion, of course;), about mentoring.  The thoughts and ideas flowed.  Sometimes they clashed, sometimes they meshed, but I feel that everyone was heard and felt secure enough in our group to express opinions that would, in the larger classroom setting, go unvoiced.  

I'm not really going to dwell on the mentoring issue today though, even though Mr. Martin and Jason did an excellent job presenting their ideas to the class.  Instead I would like to focus on the small group idea.

Thank-you Jason for implementing the small group formation.  In all honesty, the sharing and discussing of ideas in my small group has impacted me far more than the actual class has.  Kudos to you for recognizing this Jason, and for being mature enough in your relationship with the Lord to let Him lead your class in twenty "little" groups as opposed to you always leading us as one big group.  I am very grateful to you.

What can I say to/about my small group?  This has been the first small group I have been a part of as a Christian.  You all have impacted me in ways that I could never possibly convey to you even if I understood them all right now.  God has used you all to minister to me, chastize me, teach me, and surround me in a positive atmosphere.  How amazing is that? I am honoured to have gotten to know you all and look forward to spending eternity with you praising Him.

I pray that you always remember your zeal for the Lord as it is right now and that that zeal grows a thousand fold!!  

Love in Him who loved us first! (a favourite phrase from a favourite book ;)  )

Kate

 

 

Today we went on a retreat. We were supposed to hear God today. Mat was able to hear what he wanted to hear. He was searching for clarity on issues surrounding where it is that he is supposed to used by God. His conflict was with wether he wanted to be used in a corporate Church setting or not. From what I gathered there was conflict internally because he did not want that. But while walking he was given guidance from God and he realized that God would use him wherever he is.
Kate did not feel that she got much out of this retreat, except that she had a further revalation into her struggles as a Christian. At first she felt that the retreat was too forced, but I believe that she did get something out of it.
I did not get much of a chance to talk to Ben or Joanna when they got back but I would say that they atleast enjoyed themselves because of how long they were wandering around.
Myself (John Jonathan), I felt that I was going to get a lot out of this; however all I recieved was guilty feelings about the lust that I struggle with on a daily basis. I chose to remain silent for the whole day. The thing that I found weird is that it was easier to stay silent when everyone else was talking. When they were quiet also, it was more difficult.

the awesomest group time ever!!!

This week everyone was here for our group time, which made it super awesome.  We have such a dynamic group, its wonderful to have so many different viewpoints from so many strong (I hesitate to use the word stubborn!  lol) individuals!!

We started out talking about our views on what was discussed in class, which in itself was insightful as always, however we veered off onto a tangent that we followed and which led us all to stay for an extra half hour after class finished.  We started talking about commitment, what leads to commitment, attraction, sex, and guilt all from a christian standpoint. We all come from such diverse backgrounds and are all at such different points in our walk with Christ that the thoughts and ideas that sprang up from our diversity fostered an openness and closeness that we, as a group, haven't experienced before.

As a fairly new Christian it was, and I am only going to speak for myself in this blog, so affirming for me to know that the others in the group struggled with the same types of issues as me.  The concepts of real guilt, false guilt, and shame, and how it all fits in with the other topics we were discussing was especially significant.  The Enemy is so adept at using guilt against us, even when there is nothing to be guilty about.  One group member stated that Satan puts certain thoughts and ideas into our heads and then turns around and makes us feel guilty about it in the hopes of causing us to stumble.  This is something that I am struggling with pretty intensely right now and I feel that the Lord used our group time to minister to me through our conversation.  Thank you Lord!!  

Thank you all for investing a little more of yourselves into our group than usual.  God has used you to instruct, teach, guide, and invoke self awareness for a struggling Sister and I am very blessed by all of you!!

Love,

Kate

Finances, A Touchy Subject

Kate, John, Mat, Ben and myself Joanna in attendance.

Jumping into finances as a debt was the start to a rather touchy subject. I say touchy because it was a general spoken consensus that we were unsure of what was really said about tithing. Was the Mennonite Foundation of Canada (MFC) telling us to give all of our money away at church or were they suggesting that we were bad if we were not tithing? In hopes to keep personal finances personal, I too will stay consistent and leave names out. A quick note that all who were present contributed to the conversation. There were a few confessions of feeling the pain of debt and the struggle to tithe when we are in a time of making ends meet.

After wrestling with the question what is debt? Most were in agreement that purchasing a house could be a wise investment and although technically a debt, it was more an asset. Some expressed their desire to pay off their arrears and others felt that paying them off is next to impossible.

My view is that bringing up the topic of tithing in ministry is a must but speaking about it does not have to frustrate, condemn or confuse people so much. It is my suggestion that MFC could have less focus on ten percent as the tithe and more focus on prayerfully identifying what is right for each person individually. If our relationship is personal to Jesus, wouldn’t that mean that the amounts we tithe are personal too? I would like to point attention to 2 Corinthian’s 9:7 “So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity... (NKJV)”. My interpretation is that The Word is not just talking about money. Judging by many claiming this day that they felt guilty not being able to give as much as they would like, the attempt to discuss came across as very legalistic. Perhaps they could explore other ways to give so that it comes from the heart and seems attainable.

Kate’s suggestion for the MFC to provide ways for Pastor’s to talk more about tithing seems very suitable. I also agree with Ben’s idea that some churches do not need to be as big as they are and have all the fine trimmings. What else could that money be used for?

Titles are not important, right?

Today we explored the topic of finances in class.  In our own discussion group, we talked mostly about debt.  Seeing as how we are all students, debt is highly relevant.  Due to the personal nature of finances, no names will be mentioned.

We discussed the various levels of debt that each of us as individuals have incurred, and what it is like to have that much debt.  Levels of debt included small credit card balances, OSAP, lines of credit, governmental fines, and mortgages.

The following question was raised.  Does a mortgage actually count as debt?  It is certainly considdered a debt when it is applied to a speadsheet or when speaking to an accountant.  It costs money to live anywhere, so what is wrong with paying for a mortgage as opposed to paying rent?  The money payed out to rent is not retained at all, whereas with a mortgage, everything payed over top of the interest is retained in the value of the building/property.  We then discussed how when with any debt, there is value in every dollar that is payed out, exempting that payed out for interest.  The specific mechanics of reducing interest payments were discussed.

The following is an evaluation of the presentation by Mat Snyder.  These views are not neccessarily held by other members of Team Awesome.

The presentation has many important points, and primarily addressed the critical issue of opening up a discussion about money within the church.  This is an important stronghold that needs to be addressed. I felt the point about pastors being unwilling to talk about finances to have been made very well, and has been delivered to many young bible college students who will be future pastors.  The information about how much Jesus talked about money was especially important.

Improvements: The Christian jargon about sheep instead of dollars is unneccessary and confusing.  The bible is talking about income, which comes from work and monetary success.  Money is a clear analogy to cows.  The confusion about wether or not a student should tithe on his or her loan should have been made clear.  If money has not been earned, money need not be tithed.  The presentation could also have been adapted more to a student body.  The present reality of an average student is low income and large debt, so dealing with these issues in a practical manner first may allow other topics to be addressed with greater attention afterwards.

Our group discussion for friday february 20th centered around the gift of prophesy, and confession. I (John Jonathan) commented on how I dont feel that everyone who says that they have the gift of prophesy actually does. I also mentioned that the penilty for false prophets was death, and the way to tell if someone was a false prophet was if what they say does not happen, they are false. I also explained that a false prophet can do much damage to a church. However, I do beliveve that some people do have the gift, just not every one who says they do.
Kate said that some people who are false prophets may actually think that they are; they are "confused" and dont know they are not prophets. Others are liers. Kate remembers the 1980's televangelists, and how she thought how fake they seemed to her at even a young age. Then how they would fall through scandals and contraversies. But along the line of confession she spoke about how new Christians can add something positive to this discipline, even if the confession is from a pastor. With her discipline of not speaking in class, Kate found that it worked.
Matt said in regards to the false prophets that people say all kinds of crap; and he feels, like Kate, that there are liers, confused people and true prophets. One cause for false prophets is that demons can influence people to think that the prophesies are real. He wanted to mention that his teaching of the youth group last week went well; which I think is awesome.
Joanna added something rather profound to this conversation. She added that some people might actually be prophets and not know, or even feel they are but are afraid to speak out incase of ridicule. However false prophets can do much damage in peoples lives. Joanna was trying not to put her foot in her mouth for her discipline. She found that it somewhat worked, however now she is finding that she is at a loss of words, she does not know what to say anymore.

Week five bloggity blog

This week we discussed corporate disciplines.  Present were John, Ben, Mat, Joanna,and myself.

Joanna spoke about her frustrations towards churches and their attempts to make others conform to their views of worship.  She also spoke of her commitment to speak less saying she wanted to stop putting her foot in her mouth. :) Ben also spoke of his commitment to 10 minutes of solitude daily.  He only managed twice but found it very beneficial both times.

We then prayed for Joanna as she needed to prepare to give her testimony in chapel, and what a testimony it was!  God bless you Jo!  :)

We continued discussing worship, focusing on tongues.  I mention that I've always seen speaking in tongues as phony because of seeing people of questionable character "practice" this discipline in church as a child.  I have also always been confused by the repetition people use when speaking in tongues.  Mat said that sometimes God only gives you one syllable to start with and then expands your "tongues" vocabulary over time.

We then discussed our classes and how much we appreciated our professors who allowed the class to give their own opinions as opposed to foisting their personal opinions on us.

Next, we discussed confession.  John said that confession is the first step to healing and a person's husband/wife should know everything about them.  I strongly disagreed saying that some things were between a person and God and if God has forgiven them why does anyone else need to know?   Ben put forth that it depended on whether the confession would harm or foster the relationship.  We ended in group prayer.

I feel that our group is growing as a whole in that we can easily pray together, which is a very intimate thing, and because we are very open with each other.  Personally, I feel that I am growing spiritually, not because I'm better at practicing Disciplines, but because I'm learning so much about God/Jesus and I love/appreciate them more each day.

Fasting, Solitude and Submission

Class date: February 6th, 2009

This week’s lecture was on Fasting and Inner Spiritual Disciplines, including solitude and submission. John, Mat, Ben and Joanna were present.

Our discussion this week had a bit of a twist, in that we had Group 6 and our Professor Jason Mills join us. With having Jason facilitate the questions and reflection it was unique to have the outspoken calmed. In the past couple of weeks no one seemed to hesitate on their thoughts, yet this day it seemed some were afraid to speak up. Was this just a deeper reflection of one self given the nature of the topic? Perhaps it was having a larger group then normal?

John spoke of his feeling of being convicted to silence. The conversation then pulled a sharp turn to someone in the other group feeling as though if they did submit to “shutting up”, that could appear as giving up. Remarks tossed between submission being a negative thing, to submission only looking like it is a negative thing. When it comes down to it, silence can speak more then words. Michael confessed that he sometimes does not say enough and would like to have more words of wisdom. Both Christy and John enthusiastically encouraged him that sometimes things do not need to be said. Joanna made mention that Michael is a true example of speaking God’s love through Silence. He often clears everyone’s plates in the dining room and is always helping people out with out being asked.

Later, the question was posed to the group: out of the spiritual disciplines learned recently were there any commitments anyone would like to make? Jason would like to fast more on a routine basis, Ben has committed to ten minutes of solitude per day, Amanda wants to learn how to not feel like she needs to justify herself, or fit in when she is with people, and Joanna would like to only speak when it is necessary while being cautious of others feelings with how it is said. John completed his challenge of not smoking one time in the last week, and reflected on God instead. He admitted he likes a challenge and agreed to be re-challenged, only this time reading the Bible for the five minutes he would go out for a smoke.

In closing, we prayed for each other for God to assist us in our commitments and growth.

Unoriginal Title Number 3

The group today consisted of John, Joanna, and myself. This was not a problem, and we delved right into the first question, which was to John, about what he we learning from the class.

John explained that he had previously believed that meditation was something that he would never be able to really do. He thought that meditation meant to sit alone and be silent for many hours on end. This cut off any opportunity he had to meditate, because he simply can not sit still for that long without falling asleep. In class he discovered that meditation could mean memorizing and repeating scripture throughout his day. Not only was this possible, but it is actually something John was already doing. Joanna added that it is nice to know that meditation is not for Buddhists only.

We then talked about how we have learned from our college experience so far. John's perspective was clear and concise: We are learning great things but are too busy to practice these spiritual disciplines. I (Mat) agreed emphatically. The amount of knowledge that is absorbed at EBC is so extensive that it is not possible to integrate it all into our lives.

On the other hand, Joanna has had some positive experience with this so far. She has been effectively challenged to make spiritual practices a part of her day, and has managed to make time to do so. We then had some discussion about how it is difficult to take time for spiritually healthy activities when there is so much to get done. Joanna ended up challenging John to do something spiritual for five minutes instead of going for a smoke break at least once before class next week. John likened Joanna's challenge to a punch in the face.

Team Awesome Small Group meeting 2

Our group is now complete, we welcomed Joanna and Matt as our newest members and it was evident right of the start that this group was ready to share and discuss. We briefly took some time to introduce ourselves and then began discussing Willard’s interview regarding the church losing the connection between salvation and Character.
Everyone in our group agreed with Willard’s remarks, some more passionately then others. Joanna stressed that it is not merely behaviour but rather our actions should be in response to the grace given to us. Joanna admits that one of the things that frustrates her and actually turned her away from the church for a time was apathetic Christians. John liked the illustration of sharing the “lions” with the new believer and believes we have to otherwise we are simply deceiving people. Kate also shared that she fines it frustrating when she sees Christians doing something that specifically hurts their bodies. She finds it in poor character for example when a Christian smokes or drinks and she appreciates having “rules” for Christian behaviour or character. Matt was challenged by the whole idea of improving the connection between salvation and character and wondered aloud what that process may look like. Ultimately we agreed that changes had to come but it would be at a cost of “membership” but an increase of “authentic” Christians or disciples would be the gain.
I appreciated the insights from my fellow group members and enjoyed how open everyone was with sharing their ideas. As a group I feel like we are already developing trust and I look forward to seeing what God has in store for us as we continue to meet.

How do I know that I'm growing spiritually?

How do I know that I'm Growing Spiritually? For myself(John) I did not notice growth in myself. I was made aware of the majority of my spiritual growth by others close to me. I do see a change from before I came to a saving knowledge of Christ, and I do notice the fruit of the Spirit in my life but I cannot feel a specific change in myself from when I first became a Christian to now. Others around me have noticed a huge growth and that has been for me a gauge. For example I have been told by a close friend of mine that I have gained a lot of patience in dealing with others.
Kate on the other hand said that she feels the growth in her. Kate is still young in her faith in Christ and says that she can feel a definite growth in herself spiritually from even just a few months ago. Kate also has two young children who notice a change as does her mother also.
Ben noticed spiritual growth in himself from the fruit of the Spirit. Much like the only part of my growth that I noticed, Ben was seeing the Spirit at work in himself. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness.......are evident in his life, and that is how he said he noticed spiritual growth in himself.
Ben also said that as he grows spiritually he can see that he is becoming more like Christ, which should be the goal of all Christians. Other than that I find it difficult to comment on how Kate and Ben have grown because I don't know them well enough yet.